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SubscribeMengoni '08 P12
Submitted by Andy on Sat, 2008-08-23 08:15.
Ricky Lowe takes the sprint but is DQ'd for entering the jogger's lane. Adam Myerson gets the win.
Here's my first shot of the sprint showing Ricky's position. No idea if he was in the jogger's lane before this, but he definitely was legal from as far as I could see.
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for some clarification adam.
You guys can go back to fighting amongst yourselves after this, but I think it's important to clarify a few points:
1. I had a very civil, very reasonable conversation with Ricky after the race. I believe that he believes his perception of the sprint to be 100% true. I did not get the impression that he was a cheater or a liar. I have respect and sympathy for him.
2. I was not the one who filed the protest. I approached the officials table after I cooled down, stated that I thought a rider had passed us in the joggers lane, and asked if anyone else had complained about it. I was told that they had already had a number of complaints, including a marshal who was at the bottom of the hill. My comment may have been the last straw that caused them to act, but I did not lodge the protest. It wasn't blatant enough from where I was in the sprint, and if I was the only one who saw it, I would have accepted that it was my mistake, and been happy to get second to what was a very impressive, very well-timed sprint by Ricky.
3. I was approached by riders from Mengoni, MetLife, TargeTraining, Empire, and other individuals who all claim to have seen the transgression, and who were behind me in the sprint. I was told they all also spoke to the officials.
4. While I was absolutely threatened by one of the United riders while I was standing there waiting to find out what was going on, at no point did I consider that it had anything to do with race. No one said that to me personally, or accused me of it, and it's a red herring regarding the ruling itself. That rider apologized to me later.
5. My gesture at the finish line was one of frustration with myself for not catching Ricky. It wasn't directed at him in any way, and I'm sorry that in light of the way things have unfolded it has been interpreted that way.
In general, I think the whole thing was unfortunate for everyone involved. Alan had to make a really hard call that no official wants to make, even if they have enough evidence. I certainly do not want to win bike races because the guy who crosses the line first gets disqualified, even if it's justified. And whether Ricky went into the joggers lane on purpose, by accident, or not at all, it's frustrating for him. I told the organizer not even to hold a podium ceremony because there was nothing to celebrate.
I rode for NYC teams for many, many years. 4 years on Mengoni, and 4 years on Breakaway Courier Systems. I won Mengoni in 1993, when I was 21. For many years I was Wilson Vasquez's leadout man when we raced in the park. I don't think I'm better than anyone because I'm pro, or because I'm white. I think it's unfortunate that people want to boil this down to me against Ricky, or white against black, or pro against amateur. It's just a bike race. I spoke with most of the guys from United today at Binghamton, and everyone was friendly and apologetic on both sides. Try not to start a war where there isn't one, people.
And maybe it's a small point, but I have a degree in African American Studies. Implying I might be a racist or motivated by race is just plain dumb, and is really offensive to me personally. It's clear that many of you commenting don't know the first thing about me.
So, please continue, but do so with more information that you had before. Filling in the blanks with worst-case scenarios and baseless assumptions doesn't help anyone gain more understanding of the situation.
puzzle, not riddle.
baby cobra, the way you talk it's like the phrase "race card" means it's something that doesn't exist. And I'm not just talking about race, I'm talking about status too. Don't tell me that you think that even though there were no witnesses except the guy who supposedly saw Ricky go into the lane, who's a white pro, that Allan DQ'd Ricky for no reason at all. What then, do you think, the reason was? If it wasn't status or race related? Maybe he has something against big tall guys?
I'm not saying it was a conscious thing - which is why the "race card" - a racist term in itself - is more than just a card. It's pervasive.
Tell me again how racism / classism / the world works, baby cobra?
All this talk about race cards made me think of this riddle:
race car a toyota race car
no one in this discussion is arguing that he got dq'ed because he is black. That would be a ridiculous pulling of the race card. Some people are just floating the idea that the reaction to his teams frustration was harsher because black people are so easily seen as big, loud, angry, scary, and inherently rude and uncivilised.
Relax!!! CRCA has lasted a century. A couple of angry athletes is not going to bring park racing to its knees. And, just because those angry athletes are black doesn't mean a riot is going to break out or someone is going to get shot!!!!
You don't feel afraid or worried when your neighbors argue. So, don't feel afraid or worried when black guys from Brooklyn argue. If you are afraid, you might be a closet racist or at least have some prejudices you need to adjust.
My name has no "e"
It would be just as bad. Don't make this a race thing, cause its not. The race card has been pulled out WAY too much for this shit. I'm pretty sure if a white dude did the same move as Rickey, he would also get DQ'd.
I read an article recently about how when a woman gets mad at work, she's perceived as irrational and emotional. Her status goes down. When a man gets mad, he's perceived as having authority and basically being legitimately angry. I can't help but wonder if the same applies here. Would this be seen as disgraceful to the sport if some of the white bankers were yelling and cursing? I seem to remember a topic int he past that was all about how bike racers are assholes. It seems like we're saying this is only a valid thing for some of them.
Not that I even think that getting angry because an official DQ's based on race and cycling class is being an asshole. What basis did Allan have other than one person's word against another? The status of the person, that's what. This reminds me of the critical mass videos that have come out recently showing how cops treat minorities and messengers - basically anyone who isn't a person of status - during these events, regardless of how well they comply with the cops' requests. I have to agree with a previous poster that it is all bullshit.
Anyone who hasn't experienced racism towards them on pretty much a daily basis has no idea where the anger was coming from and probably never will. But that doesn't mean you should invalidate it. Step outside yourself just a little bit and learn some empathy. I think it's a good thing that Ricky's teammates got mad and made a scene. What's bad about the situation is how others interpreted it.
Where you gonna get photographic evidence on the spot, that is, even if there was a camera in the area where the infraction occurred. Its a park race, last time i checked there were no camera men on motos or heli's following the race.
This has nothing to do with personal prejudices, and everything to do with Rickey racing like an asshole consistently. love how everyone has to turn shit into a race issue.
Sounds like a lot of people are using their own prejudices to judge Ricky's actions. If you didn't see it directly - don't comment - if you did - front up and use your name, not this "my team mate said he saw....." The photo's, backed up by Alex's comments would suggest its one word against another. Since Ricky came on the scene a few years certain more well rounded riders have had a chip on their shoulders about this "kid" who although not as all roundedly talented could blow them all away on Cats Paw. As for the the people who are calling WS United low class and calling for bans...look beyond your own insecurities. I don't know these guys but aren't they the ones who went out and filled in all the potholes at FBF so racing could continue in a safe manner last summer. As for the notion their actions are threatening CP racing, well people in glass houses really shouldn't throw stones. I remember one of the last club races I attended 2 years ago, a complaint being lodged against a certain very popular and well respected "0ver 40 climber" - his reaction in the heat of the moment at the judges tables was to curse loudly and call it all "f'ing b**shit"" - everyone heard. No-one called for a dq, or big ban or that he threatened the future of CP racing, and nor should they. Heat of the moment stuff - not big, not clever but human nature. Multiply that effect by the "club race vs Mengoni GP" effect and is it really such a surprise?
Also Alan Atwood is a class guy who gives so much to the sport - but that doesn't mean his actions are beyond reproach or question. Hes in a high pressure situation with a lot of people shouting and telling him what to do. He makes mistakes - hes only human. Maybe he did on this occasion, maybe he didn't, but if his decision was based on a Pro's word against a local rider, without consulting all the other judges or looking at photgraphic evidence then that's very unfortunate.
you come on a message board and anonymously attack people and spew hate - why can' t everyone you just state your issue without attacking people? - such as Alan, etc... better yet, say it to his face?
All this Ricky Talk could very well make him more famous then the winner...what's his name?
who and where are we getting this 20?
Can someone explain?
You try moving up 20 bike lengths (if and only if the first twenty don't spread out additionally in the sprint)in a sprint bro...Its pretty fucking rare. Unless there's twenty climbers in front of you or you got a clean shot and a slingshot you won't win.
I wasn't even there, mostly because I'd rather race over the Williamsburg bridge bike path during morning rush hour than race in central park, but based upon previous experience with Rickey cannonballing his way through everyone and everything, including the joggers lane, in the past, repeatedly, its pretty safe to assume that he did violate the joggers lane, and it wasn't up where graham watson jr took the shots. It spreads out considerably leading up that that sprint, it would be pretty easy for him to hit that outside lane at the bottom of the hill and shoot to the front.
Not TRUE to (DQ excuse or otherwise, you got beat) in order to win you have to maintain strong positions in the front taking MORE WIND then from someone who comes from behind VIA a clear lane like the joggers lane is going to be at a lower HR.
and also maybe just did not have good position which is the other element to the story why one would have to come use other lane.
please explain 20 position sprint? I don't understand?
the longer line in the park is about 20 meters longer, no way anyone would go that far out into the lane. no reason, esp when the photos show him on the inside within the last 50.
sorry for the double.
Sometimes the shortest line is not the fastest line. Especially when 80 other racers want to take the shortest line. It can be faster to go around the long way where you have a clear line to the finish.
Ok, nobody violates the joggers lane in the last 100 meters in Central Park cause that would mean you'd have to take the longest possible line in the sprint. Clearly, it happened before that. Good job with the logic skills. Though, understanding this would assume that you are not a retarded bike racer and realize that the short line is faster, and around here, that just might be too much to ask of you people.
SO cameraman, move your ass down the hill, and take photos there of him moving up in the joggers lane. And while you're at it, plant yourself near the parking lot in prospect park to get similar shots, of not only Rickey, but every other non-Caucasian sprinting up in the joggers lane, as if it was a fried sweet plantains prime.....
Ok, nobody violates the joggers lane in the last 100 meters in prospect park cause that would mean you'd have to take the longest possible line in the sprint. Clearly, it happened way before that. good job with the logic skills. Though, understanding this would assume that you are not a retarded bike racer and realize that the short line is faster, and around here, that just might be too much to ask of you people.
SO camerman, move your ass down the hill, and take photos there of him moving up in the joggers lane. and while you're at it, plant yourself near the parking lot in prospect park to get similar shots.
ricky. I enjoyed your post. I did not enjoy the racism and bullshit antics after the race. you represent yourself and your sport.
your teammates represent you and our sport.
it was very embarrassing.
i dont know if you were in the joggers lane for the finish, but...
the joggers lane was abused by foundation and united riders throughout the race.
the company you keep.....
beneficial because of lower heart rate. You must be a cat 6 rider.
I will add that i have nothing to add.
I was an official at the race. I can say that from where I was at the finish of the race , right by the camera, I did not see any violations. I will add, before anyone asks, the protests against Ricky were not reported to me and I do not know the details. It is quite possible that the reported violation occurred before the point where the riders can be seen from the finish line. But I don't know that to be a fact.
Ricky probably won it, he's a strong finisher. Maybe the DQ was right. Don't know for sure... But the one thing I know for sure was his teammates were acting like fools yelling and swearing. Have some class.
Ricky - You should protest the ruling to USA Cycling.
I didn't see if what you say is true and have no reason to dispute. you've always raced straight up in the past so tend to believe you. But you don't do yourself any favors riding on a team full of vigilante bullies who do break the rules and spend half the race in the joggers lane, not to mention sprint like tazmanian devils. If we're to judge people by their actions then congrats on yours win but if we're to judge people by the company they keep, you should willingly accept the result of DNF. Your team sucks ass. Find another team and we'll love you again.
Men Pro/1/2 79 Starters 48 Miles
1 53 Anthony Lowe WS United/Sheepshead
Cycling Boston MA 1:32:10
2 70 Lisban Quintero CRCA/FOUNDATION Maspeth NY st
3 2 Adam Alexander CRCA/Sakonnet Technology U25 New York NY st
4 31 Gerardo Fernandez GS Mengoni Glen Spey NY st
5 15 Horace Burrowes WS UNITED Brooklyn NY st
6 17 Jermaine Burrowes WS UNITED/SHEEPSHEAD CYCLE Brooklyn NY st
7 81 Wilson Vasquez GS Mengoni Fort Lee NJ st
8 86 Rodney Santiago Colavita Sutter Home Allentown PA st
9 59 Roselvert Marte Quezada GS Mengoni Fort Lee NJ st
10 41 Alejandro Guzman CRCA/FOUNDATION Sunnyside NY st
11 9 Nick Bennette MetLife p/b unlose.it Metuchen NJ st
12 50 Martin Lechowicz CRCA/FOUNDATION Locust Valley NY st
13 3 Joshua Alexander Foundation/Century Road Club and AssoNew York NY st
14 16 Paul Burrowes Union Brooklyn NY st
15 21 Paul Chooweenem Ozone Park NY st
16 38 Glenroy Griffith CRCA FOUNDATION Brooklyn NY st
17 6 Stephan Badger Targetraining Roxbury CT st
18 32 Monte Frank Cycle Fitness Sandy Hook CT st
19 39 Rashad Guerra Kissena Cycling Club Brooklyn NY st
20 33 Eneas Freyre TARGETRAINING Greenwich CT st
21 18 Chad Butts Champion System Danbury CT st
22 75 Raj Seepersaud Champion System/Kraft Genie Cycling New York NY st
23 29 Gavriel Epstein CRCA/Sakonnet Technology U25 New York NY st
24 36 Graham Garber MetLife p/b unlose.it West Hartford CT st
25 45 Matt Inconiglios Stage 1 / fusionTHINK Stamford CT st
26 46 Abdul Kabia TargeTraining/Fastar Hartsdale NY st
27 34 Nick Friesen GS Mengoni New York NY st
28 74 Salvatore Scotto Divetta Sommerville Sports Brooklyn NY st
29 40 Andrew Guptill Colavita/Sutter Home Pro Cycling TeamHannacroix NY st
30 14 Franklin Burgos Champion System New York NY st
31 28 John Durso Liberty Morris Plains NJ st
32 24 Chris Coutu MetLife p/b unlose.it Upton MA st
33 85 Thom Coupe Metlife Plymouth NH st
34 84 Eli Richbourg Team Helen's Los Angenles CA st
35 73 Will Schneider GS Gotham/Toga Bikes New York NY st
36 72 Phil Riggio CRCA/ Jonathan Adler Racing Darien CT st
37 4 Juan Almonte GS Mengoni Jamaica NY st
38 58 Chad Marion Bolt Brothers New York NY st
39 27 Rafael Diaz-Granados_ TARGETTRAINING Leonia NJ st
40 37 Conrad Gomez Strictly Bicycles Cycling/sothebys inMiami Beach FL st
41 10 Scott Bodin Targetraining Nanuet NY st
42 20 Peter Chiu NEBC/Cycle Loft/Devonshire Dental Wayland MA st
43 76 Peter Shapiro NEBC/Cycle Loft/Devonshire Dental Cranston RI st
44 22 Jon Clifton Moore Rush920 Philadelphia PA st
45 51 J Gabriel Lloyd TARGETRAINING U-25 New York City NY st
46 44 Cheyne Hoag CRCA/Sakonnet Technology Dansville NY st
47 49 Robert Lattanzi CRCA/Sid's-Cannondale New York NY st
48 66 Michael Norton Calyon Pro Cycling Team Goshen NY st
49 57 Mike Margarite CRCA/Empire Cycling Team New York NY st
50 25 Sheldon Deeny CRCA/Empire Cycling Team Fort Collins CO st
51 55 Robert Lyons GS Gotham/Toga Bikes Larchmont NY st
52 67 Tom Officer Les Amis de Blaireau Litchfield CT st
53 5 Jose Medina Andrades GS Mengoni Glen Spey NY st
54 77 Brad Sheehan MetLife p/b unlose.it Newton Center MA st
55 23 Joao Correia Bissell Pro Cycling Team Brooklyn NY st
56 54 Jonathan Lowenstein NBX/Narragansett Beer/Apex Tech. North Kingstown RI st
57 60 Michael Mathis CRCA/Empire Cycling Team Rochester NY st
58 56 Euri Madera GS Mengoni New York NY st
59 8 Peter Bell MetLife p/b unlose.it Middlebury VT st
60 42 Melito Heredia innovation bike Fort Lee NJ st
61 11 Eugene Boronow GS Mengoni Jamaica NY st
62 47 Troy Kimball Westwood Velo Randolph NJ st
63 43 Thomas Hinnershitz CRCA / Jonathan Adler Racing Stamford CT st
64 78 David Taylor CRCA/Blue Ribbon-Translations.com New York NY st
65 82 David Wiswell CRCA/Empire Cycling Team New York NY st
66 71 Kevin Molloy New York NY st
67 68 J.p. Partland Kissena Cycling Club New York NY st
68 35 John Funk Cycle Fitness South Kent CT st
69 52 Christopher Long G.S. Gotham/Toga Woodside NY st
DQ 53 Anthony Lowe WS United/Sheepshead Cycles Brooklyn NY Rule 3b1
DNF 12 Alex Bremer CRCA/Empire Cycling Team New York NY
DNF 13 Eric Brownell CRCA/Empire Cycling Team Stamford CT
DNF 26 Chandler Delinks Ipswich MA
DNF 48 Valery Kobzarenko Team Type 1
DNF 61 Michael McGinley Sommerville Sports World Team Plainville CT
DNF 63 John Minutrn CRCA/Empire Cycling Team Philadelphia PA
DNF 64 Igor Misicki CRCA/FOUNDATION Locust Valley NY
DNF 79 Ryan Tie CRCA Bandit Racing New York NY
DNF 83 Inson Wood FOUNDATION/CRCA New York NY
Ricky obviously is the victim here. Myerson is an elitist non-NYer who has a case of sour grapes, Atwood is a Nazi sympathizer who hates the Burrowes on sight, the CRCA should have had a curb installed at the base of Cat's Paw hill, and the stars were mal-aligned. Just as long as we understand that Ricky _cannot_ be blamed for anything.
He took a ligit win away from a local rider because a pro bitched about getting second.
Any one who thinks its okay to let a doper coach kids is and idiot. Yes Allan is and Idiot.
I felt pretty good for most of the race. It wasn't too fast and there was a lot of bunching. It was very hard to move up because of the bunching but I managed to pick my way through to somewhere around 15th postion. I knew that if I were to win I would have to throw a hail marry. Because the speed wasn't too fast I stayed towards the left gambling that they won't belly out to the left and would stay to the inside curb at the bottom of cat's paw. My legs felt good so I didn't need a wheel I just needed momentum. The field hugged he inside curb as I had gambled and I gave it full gas at the bottom of the hill. I knew I went way too early but I also had nothing to loose coming from that far back in the field. At no time did I enter the joggers lane. There was no one close that I had pass and entering the joggers lane would have been plain stupid. I had nothing what so ever to gain from entering the joggers lane and there was no way that would have benefited my sprint. I have won sprints in the pass on the opposite side in the same manner. Myerson got caught off guard but thats because there was a slowing when I gave it full gas.
Fortunately for me, neither Allan Atwood nor Adam Myerson can take a win away from me. My concience is clear and I know within myself that I won the race fair and square. When I asked Myerson what reason would I have to to enter the joggers lane he fumbled and said, "Maybe you came around the corner too fast and over shot the corner". He didn't say because I was blocked and I had to pass since there was no one within six or so feet to me. He said I over shot the corner. One, I am not that fast and two, I think I know Central Park well enough to know that the corner was coming up.
About the people who just don't like me for whatever reason, remember that half the people in the world are going to hate you for the very same reason the other half loves you. Peace.
Officials/race organizers obviously don't care about joggers lane. If they did they would have someone watching joggers lane 200-300 meters from the finish.
Easy. Alan's not an idiot. Can we just hear from people with actual first hand knowledge of the incident?
Ricky never entered the joggers lane. Myerson is the only one that protested from the top twenty riders about ricky entering the joggers lane. Allan like the idiot he is disqualified ricky base on the guy who came in second and an unknown spectator's protest. I have never heard a spectator coming up to an offical and protesting a bike race. It stinks and totally unfair.
I wasn't there but people are always weaving over the white line bumping cones. If they weave over your line during your acceleration what are you supposed to do?
He obviously doesn't look happy losing to Ricky He doesn't know the riders in NYC so how could he judge who would contest him for a sprint? I am just an outside observer but it reeks foul. It would not be a complete surprise for Ricky to win a CP race.
"I think Ricky being DQ'd is sour grapes or just a bad resolution for losing a race"
Why do you think that?
If Ricky indeed commited the infraction, does he have any responsibility? Or is everyone else at-fault for speaking out?
Where are the 100 guys blasting Ricky?
That's cool the Ken moved out of the lane at Maltese, that's the right thing to do. If everything was even, he was still in the lane at some point (as per the picture), whether or not it was on purpose. If someone was bitter the could use that too.
I think Ricky being DQ'd is sour grapes or just a bad resolution for losing a race. I also think if he was still on Visit Britain (if it still existed) more people would side with him. United guys don't do themselves any favors popularity wise.
Ken did something interesting--
In the finish of the Lou Maltese race, I was on his wheel going into the sprint. As he started to sprint and began passing the others on the left, the others moved left, forcing him into an uncomfortable position in the rec lane. Instead of continuing to sprint through the lane, he eased up-- seemingly as an act of honor, because it wouldn't be right to press on under those circumstances (though I'm interpreting his action). Still, he restarted his sprint only after returning to the legal roadway. BTW, it cost us the race.
Immediately after the race, my team mate said (smiling and shaking his head) that Ricky blasted by them, right through the joggers' lane, while they were all bunched up and boxed in at the bottom of the hill. My team mate went about his business and didn't talk more about it (and he didn't protest).
But everyone else was talking about it, and there was a gathering at the officials' table.
Given those two facts, what do you think happened?
http://pezcyclingnews.com/cgi/gallerypicget.asp?pic=http://www.pezcyclin...
I find it hard to believe that Ricky did that, but I guess anything is possible. For a man who has a newborn and a chid with disabilites, plus a full time job, his even being competitive is impressive.
On what did the ref base his decision? Did he see it, or was it all based on hearsay? If no impartial authority saw it, then I'd have to agree that Ricky was robbed and if he can appeal he should.
I doubt the officials saw it. I was shooting from about 30 feet from where they were standing, and you can't see a violation in the shots.
Did Myerson file the protest himself? Or did one of the officials see something and Myerson just confirmed it? Does an accusation about a jogger's lane violation have to be confirmed by more that one rider or is it a "my word against yours" situation? I hope it needs to be backed-up by more than one person.
It's a shame this had to happen to a great guy like Ricky Lowe.
did anyone actually SEE it? because nobody here seems to want to come forward and say, yes, i saw him move up in the jogger lane.
seems like he wuz robbed.
I posted the first shot I have of the sprint above. Ricky's already in front, so I guess it doesn't prove anything one way or the other?
Not TRUE to (DQ excuse or otherwise, you got beat) in order to win you have to maintain strong positions in the front taking MORE WIND then from someone who comes from behind VIA a clear lane like the joggers lane is going to be at a lower HR.
and also maybe just did not have good position which is the other element to the story why one would have to come use other lane.
http://sports.aol.com/olympics/story/_a/bbdp/an-insult-to-mankind/145533
Well...I'm not seeing 100 posts ranting Ricky about racing in the joggers lane, actually it seems to be the opposite. I don't condone riding in the lane but remember seeing a PICTURE of Ken Harris clearly in the lane during Maltese. He finshed 2nd.
Tell me where's the difference? It's okay for one guy, not okay for the other? One guy is on film, the other guy nobody sees in the lane except for the guy who finished 2nd who got crushed? Explain.
"DQ excuse or otherwise, you got beat"
If a rider took a short cut and finished ahead, would you still say that? Where do you draw the line? Or should I ask, is there a degree of cheating that you find accceptable?